Manuals / Holder / Lawn and Garden / Lawn Mower

Holder C 9700 H Table of Dimensions, C 9700 ... C 9.88 H, Operating Instructions, Technical data

Models: A4 VG 40 EP A6 VM 55 EP C 9700 C 9700 H C 9.72 C 9.78 H C 9800 H C 9.83 H C 9.72 H C 9.88 H VG 50 EP

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C 9700 ... C 9.88 H

Table of Dimensions

Operating Instructions

Technical data

					Trailer Coupling
Tires	Type	Overall Height	Avg. Height of	Ground	Lowest Position	Highest Position	Height of Body
Tires	Type	Overall Height	Avg. Height of	Ground	Lowest Position	Highest Position	Height of Body
			Seat	Clearance
		a	b	c	d	d	g
		mm (Inches)	mm (Inches)	mm (Inches)	mm (Inches)	mm (Inches)	mm (Inches)

10.5-18 MPT S	524-31-6	2130 (83.8)	1050 (41.3)	230 (9)	575 (22.4)	975 (38.2)	1130 (44.5)

10.5-18 MPT	524-31-1	2130 (83.8)	1050 (41.3)	230 (9)	575 (22.4)	975 (38.2)	1130 (44.5)

36x13.50-15	524-31-8	2100 (82.5)	1020 (40.1)	200 (7.9)	545 (21.3)	945 (37.1)	1095 (43.1)

400/60-15.5	524-31-5	2095 (82.3)	1030 (40.5)	195 (7.5)	540 (21.2)	940 (37)	1095 (43.1)

33x12,50-R15	524-31-7	2090 (82.2)	1020 (40.1)	190 (7.3)	535 (21.0)	935 (36.6)	1090 (42.9)

33/18LL-16.1	524-31-9	2090 (82.2)	1020 (40.1)	190 (7.3)	535 (21.0)	935 (36.6)	1090 (42.9)

33x12.50-15	524-31-4	2075 (81.4)	1010 (39.7)	180 (7)	525 (20.6)	925 (36.3)	1075 (42.3)

33x15.50-15	524-31-3	2075 (81.4)	1010 (39.7)	180 (7)	525 (20.6)	925 (36.3)	1075 (42.3)

31x15.50-15	524-31-2	2065 (81.1)	980 (38.6)	165 (6.4)	510 (20)	910 (35.8)	1060 (41.7)

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Holder C 9700 H, VG 50 EP, C 9.72 H Table of Dimensions, C 9700 ... C 9.88 H, Operating Instructions, Technical data

Contents

C-Trac Date of IssueOperating Instructions C 9700 HOperating Instructions General Notes on ServiceC 9700 ... C 9.88 H ForewordExplanations of Terminology Date of Issue and Manual Version NovemberForeword DANGERC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Table of ContentsChapter Operating InstructionsPage Site of Operation Instructions for the TractorApproved Applications Unintended ApplicationsNote on Disposal of Tractor Instructions for the TractorResidual Hazards and Risks C 9700 ... C 9.88 HDrivers license Maximum Total WeightInstructions for Operation Drivers license classes Germany onlyC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Instructions for OperationMaximum Total Weight Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Maximum Total WeightC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Instructions for OperationC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Two Trailers behind Tractors for Farming and ForestryMaximum Total Weight Operating InstructionsSafety Notes for Later Installations SafetyGeneral Notes on Safety Working ClothesC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Safety Instructions for Handling Fuels and OilsGear Oil, Engine Oil, Diesel Fuel Operating InstructionsEmissions Exhaust Gases Battery AcidHydraulic Oil, Brake Fluid C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H BatteryHeat Operating InstructionsModel Technical DataModel Variants TransmissionSketch Technical dataTractor Dimensions C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Table of DimensionsTechnical data Operating InstructionsTechnical data Track WidthsFlange size C 9700 ... C 9.88 HWeights w/o loading platform and rear lift WeightsTechnical data C 9700 ... C 9.88 HType of Tire Wheel WeightsTires ProfileC 9700/9.72 Technical dataEngine Specifications C 9800/9.73HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Theoretical Driving SpeedsTechnical data Operating InstructionsSuppl. Information Technical Data/Filling QuantitiesAssembly DescriptionBrakes C 9700 ... C 9.88 HSteering Trailer hitchTechnical data Rear liftDrive Hydraulics AssemblyElectrical System Hydraulics for implementswith steering Whole VehicleEngine Type Noise LevelTable of Noise Levels and Absorption Rating Engine OutputFront Left View DescriptionViews of Tractor C 9700 ... C 9.88 HRear Right View DescriptionTractor C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Drivers StationOperating controls Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating InstructionsDescription Operating Instructions Implement* and Engine Controls DetailsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H DescriptionMulti-function Lever Various types of multi-function levers can be installedDescription Multi-function Lever VariantOperating Instructions Multi-function Lever* VariantC 9700 ... C 9.88 H DescriptionDescription C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Multi-function Lever* VariantC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Hydraulic Carrier* Control Power LifterFoot Pedals Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating Controls Behind the SeatDrive Range Pre-selection Lever between Seats Operating InstructionsHeater Taking into ServiceFront PTO Selector C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Legend for Multi-function DisplayTaking into Service Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Controls for Mechanical GearboxC 9700 ... C 9.88 H DescriptionC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Controls on Cabin Console at Front LeftControls on Cabin Console at Front Right Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Controls in Cabin at RearC 9700 ... C 9.88 H DescriptionC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Location of Plates and LabelsIdentification Plates Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Mounting Instructions for License PlateC 9700 ... C 9.88 H DescriptionAssembly Dimension /Order No./TypeOverview of Options and Variants C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H AssemblyDimension /Order No./Type Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H AssemblyDimension /Order No./Type Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H AccessoriesThe tractor is delivered with the following accessories Operating InstructionsChecking and Cleaning the Cooler and Radiator Taking into Serviceinto Service Check if the mud guards 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 are cleanCheck the engine oil level only when the tractor is on level ground Turning on the Battery Isolating SwitchThe battery can be switched off completely with the removable key Checking Engine Oil LevelIf the inflation pressure is too high, the tires can explode Checking the Trailer Hitch Optional, if requiredChecking Tire Inflation Pressure Taking into ServiceTaking into Service Checking the Drive Hydraulics Oil LevelChecking the Implement Hydraulics Oil Level C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Filling FuelTaking into Service Operating InstructionsChecking the Brake Fluid Level Adjusting the SteeringWheelDo not adjust the steering wheel while driving The tilt of the steering wheel can be set to aAdjusting the Lumbar Padding Adjusting the Drivers SeatDo not adjust the seat while driving. Risk of accidents Adjusting the BackrestAdjusting the Seat Horizontally Adjusting the Drivers WeightAdjusting the Horizontal Suspension Taking into ServiceAdjusting the Weight Taking into ServiceAdjusting the Passenger Seat Adjusting the Backrest HorizontallyTaking into Service Filling Washing WaterChecking the Lights and Rear View Mirror C 9700 ... C 9.88 HInstructions before Starting Starting the EngineInstructions before Starting the Engine Start the engine only from the drivers stationC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Starting the EngineTaking into Service Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Taking into ServiceC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Bild033C 9700 ... C 9.88 H Checking the Brakes and Steering for Proper Operati- onTaking into Service Operating InstructionsBefore Starting to Drive Driving Safety RulesOperation C 9700 ... C 9.88 HDriving This must only be done when the tractor is stationaryOperation Driving with Hydrostatic Drive and Digital ElectronicsTable of Driving Ranges SymbolOperation PositionC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Table of Driving ProgramsSymbol Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Setting the Working Speed of Programs 3 andSelecting Road Speed Transport Speed Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions You can also switch ranges while drivingC 9700 ... C 9.88 H OperationC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Adjusting the Inch KnobWhile driving you can adjust the inch knob Operating InstructionsChanging the Direction of Travel Operating the Inch PedalThe inch pedal allows driving speed to be reduced temporarily C 9700 ... C 9.88 HSymbol Driving with Hydrostatic Drive, Digital Electronics and Dual DriveTable of Driving Ranges with Dual Drive C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Drive the tractor warm for approx. 10-12 min. at driving rangeThe functions of the drive are same except for the overdrive Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Driving with the Mechanical GearboxC 9700 ... C 9.88 H OperationOperating Instructions Do not keep the foot on the clutch pedal when drivingC 9700 ... C 9.88 H OperationOperating Instructions The direction of travel can be changed when driving slowlyC 9700 ... C 9.88 H OperationDisengaging the Differential Lock The differential lock may only be used when driving straightEngaging the Differential Lock C 9700 ... C 9.88 HBraking Operating the Service BrakeSteering The engine can stall if you brake too hard inDisengaging the Parking Brake An alert is sounded when driving with the parking brake appliedEngaging the Parking Brake C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Driving on SlopesC 9700 ... C 9.88 H OperationPage Place the tractor on level ground in both directions Special Operating InstructionsStationary Operation Hydraulic Oil Flow for Stationary OperationSpecial Operating Instructions Adjusting the Track WidthThe same spacers must be installed on all four wheels 340 NmOperating the Emergency Shift Mechanical Gearbox installation, it is possible to drive to an authorizedOperating the Emergency Start Hydrostatic Drive with Dual-Drive Only OnlyWinter Diesel Fuel Ballast WeightsOperation in Winter Preheating of Oil Engine Oil for Winter OperationPossible Implements Safety Instructions for Handling ImplementsOperating the Implements C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsAdditional Information for Implements Operating InstructionsFront Implement Rear Implement or Front/Rear CombinationsGV min=GH ·c+d-TV·b+0.2·TL·b a+b GH min=GV ·a-TH·b+X·TL·b b+c+dOperating the Implements C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions 6 Tire carrying capacitySecure the implement against shifting or rolling off Attaching ImplementsUse only the following specified devices for attaching your implement C 9700 ... C 9.88 HMake sure no-one is standing between the tractor and implement Adjusting Catch Hook and Catch Hook BarAdjusting the Length of the Catch Hook Bar C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Adjusting the Upper Link MountC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsOperating Instructions Coupling Hydraulic LinesC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Installing the Cardan ShaftsRemoving Implements Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating ImplementsOperating the Hydraulic Control Levers Operating InstructionsTransport lock for road travel Control Lever FunctionsFunctions of Lock-out Knob C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Different versions of the multi-function lever can be installedMulti-function Lever Functions Operating InstructionsOperating the Implements C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Push the multi-function lever 4 fully forwardOperating the Implements C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Multi-function Lever VariantAttachment Operating the ImplementsTable of Multi-function Lever Functions Variant MotionC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Front Lift 2 - Shifting Left/RightYou can also select the function only temporarily by pressing lightly Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H 7 8Front Lift 3 - Lateral Tilt Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Activating Functions OperationC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsOperating Instructions Operating the PTOC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Engaging the Front PTONever engage the PTO with the engine off Operating Instructionsselector lever 4 located at the articulated Ein Engaging the Rear PTOThe rear PTO can be engaged with PTO joint. The lever positions are shown on the plateOperating Instructions Operating the Hydraulic Carrier* Power LifterC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Road Travel with CarrierOperation with Carrier Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating Variable Pump* for Implements setting from 0 to 100 litresTurn on the starting safety switch 7 only at low engine speed Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Increase the engine speed, but then increase the oil flow only slowlyTurning Off the Variable Pump for Implements Operating InstructionsIncrease the speed of the engine slowly Operating the Power Hydraulics* 75 L Fixed FlowTurn on the starting safety switch only at a low engine speed C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Turning Off the Power HydraulicsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the Hydraulic DumperMake sure no-one standing behind the truck can get hurt Operating Instructionslated Turn on the starting safety switch only at low engine speedOperating the Oil Circulating Device* Rear, Unregu C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Turning off the Oil Circulating DeviceC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating Priority Flow ValveTurn on the starting safety switch only at a low engine speed Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions Turning Off the Priority Flow ValveC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating the ImplementsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating priority flow valveTurn on the starting safety switch only at a low engine speed Operating InstructionsOperating the Implements C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Turning Off the Priority Flow ValveOperating the roof hatch Opening the roof hatch Other ActivitiesOperating the Drivers Cab Removing the roof hatchFront Windshield Wiper/Washer Other activitiesTurning on the Windshield Wiper/Washer RearWiper/WasherLights Turn the preheat/starter switch to positionTo use the headlight flasher, operate the signal lever up Turning On and Operating the LightsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H 9 17 1016 15 Operating InstructionsTurning on the Upper Lights Right and Left Turn SignalOther activities The functions high beam and headlight flasherC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Turning on the Hazard Warning Flasher SystemTurning on the Rotating Beacon Operating InstructionsInterior Light Turning on the Flood LightThe flood light should not be used in the public traffic area Turning on the Interior LightRadio* and Loudspeaker Operating the Radio The loudspeakers 3 are installed at the rear in the roof of the cabinPower Socket Connecting Equipment to Power Socket There is a separate operating manual for the radioTurning on the Heating HeatingHeating and Ventilation The cabin heater is heated by the engineThe fresh air blower top has 2 speeds The heater blower has two speedsTurning on the Ventilation System C 9700 ... C 9.88 Hthe air conditioning Operating the Air ConditionerA separate operating manual is supplied for Please observe the instructions in this manual for operationC 9700 ... C 9.88 H FusesFuses for the Tractor Operating InstructionsThe fuses for the cabin are located on the console at the top right To gain access to the fuses, remove the coverFuses for the Cabin Fuse for Air ConditioningPage Stopping theTractor Taking out of OperationLeaving the Tractor C 9700 ... C 9.88 HDo not leave the cabin without taking the ignition key Taking out of OperationParking Leaving theTractorTable of Trailers Permissible Total WeightTrailers, Towing Type of TrailerBearing Load Trailers, TowingOperating the Trailer Hitch, Attaching Trailers Be sure no-one is standing between the tractor and trailerOperating Instructions Driving with TrailersC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Trailers, TowingPage Instructions for Loading Transport, Loading, TowingInstructions forTransport C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Transport, hoisting, towingInstructions forTowing Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Indicators, AdjustmentsAdjusting the Speedometer Operating InstructionsPage Problems in Electronic and Hydraulic Drive System Problems, Cause, RemedyProblems in Engine and Exhaust Gas Turbo- charger MalfunctionC 9700 ... C 9.88 H ProblemMalfunctions, cause, remedy Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Malfunctions, cause, remedyProblem Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions ProblemC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Malfunctions, cause, remedyC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Problems in the Hydraulic System and SteeringProblem Operating InstructionsOperating Instructions ProblemC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Malfunctions, cause, remedyService General Remarks on MaintenanceQualification of the Service Personnel How to Value the Tractor?Service General Remarks on MaintenanceThe following services were carried out Hours ofGeneral Remarks on Maintenance Safety Notes for MaintenanceHandling fuels and lubricants C 9700 ... C 9.88 HGeneral Remarks on Maintenance C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Work on the Electrical Equipment General Remarks on MaintenanceDisconnect the battery ground lead C 9700 ... C 9.88 HJacking Up The weight to be lifted should not exceed theJack Lifting Points permissible load capacity of the jackC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Securing the Frame Loading PlatformGeneral Remarks on Maintenance Operating InstructionsPage C 9700 ... C 9.88 H Maintenance ScheduleMaintenance during the First Period of Operation Operating InstructionsPeriodic Maintenance Maintenance ScheduleRegular Maintenance Service and InspectionService and Inspection Maintenance SchedulePeriodic Maintenance Maintenance every 1000 service hoursPage Check the Engine for Leaks Maintenance during the First Period of OperationMaintenance after the First 50 Operating Hours C 9700 ... C 9.88 HPage C 9700 ... C 9.88 H Maintenance as RequiredAdjusting the Speedometer Operating InstructionsType Maintenance as requiredSwitch Arrangement GearboxReplacement Checking the Air Cleaner SystemCleaning Maintenance as requiredMaintenance as required Changing the Hydraulic Oil Return Filter for the Variable PumpObserve the instructions for handling fuels and lubricants C 9700 ... C 9.88 HC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Changing the Hydraulic Oil Return Filter for Power HydraulicsMaintenance as required Operating InstructionsPage Cleaning the Cooling System Cleaning with Compressed Air Maintenance According to IntervalsMaintenance Every 125 Service Hours Cleaning with Cold Cleaner orWater JetChecking the High Pressure Hoses Maintenance Every 125 Service HoursChecking the Battery and Cable Connections C 9700 ... C 9.88 HFilling quantity Checking the Steering Cylinders and OrbitrolChecking the Brake Fluid Level for the Foot Brake Do not mix different kinds of brake fluidsChecking the Braking System Checking the Clutch if mechanical gearbox is fittedChecking the PTO clutch Do not operate the tractor with a defective braking systemC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Tractor LubricationMaintenance Every 125 Service Hours Operating InstructionsChecking the Electrical System Tightening Nuts and BoltsTightening the Wheel Nuts Maintenance Every 125 Service HoursMaintenance Every 125 Service Hours Cleaning the Upper Fresh Air FilterCleaning the Lower Fresh Air Filter C 9700 ... C 9.88 HPage Changing the Engine Oil Maintenance Every 500 Service HoursDanger of scalding when draining hot engine oil 8.75 litres 2.31 USGALObserve the instructions on handling fuels and lubricants Maintenance Every 500 Service HoursChanging the Engine Oil Filter Checking Hose Couplings for LeaksC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Changing the Hydraulic Oil Pressure Filter Drive HydraulicsMaintenance Every 500 Service Hours Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Changing the Hydraulic Oil Pressure Filter Imple- ment HydraulicsMaintenance Every 500 Service Hours Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Maintenance Every 500 Service HoursChecking the Heating System Operating InstructionsPage For the sake of your safety, observe the fol- lowing instructions Maintenance Every 1000 Service HoursChecking the Battery Checking Valve ClearanceCleaning/Replacing the Fuel Pump Strainer Maintenance Every 1000 Service HoursAdjust V-belt tension only when the engine is shut off Checking V-belt Tension and ConditionC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Lubricating the Cardan ShaftMaintenance Every 1000 Service Hours Operating InstructionsPage Hours Maintenance Every 1500 ServiceDanger of scalding when draining of hot gear oil Change the Front Gearbox Oil Including AxlesFilling Oil Gearbox Only Maintenance Every 1500 Service HoursFilling Oil Hydrostatic Drive Only approx. 10.9 litres 2.88 USGALChanging the Rear Gearbox Oil Including Offset Change the gear oil only when still warmDanger of scalding when draining hot gear oil AxlesOperating Instructions Maintenance Every 1500 Service HoursC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Filling quantityChange the hydraulic oil while still warm Danger of scalding when draining hot hydraulic oilChanging the Drive Hydraulics Oil Maintenance Every 1500 Service Hoursapprox. 19 litres 5.02 USGAL The air in the hydraulic system is bled automaticallyFill recommended hydraulic oil through the filler neck Maintenance Every 1500 Service HoursMaintenance Every 1500 Service Hours Changing the Implement Hydraulics OilSecure the dump body loading platform* against accidental lowering Danger of scalding when draining hot hydraulic oilCleaning Checking or Cleaning the Implement Hydraulics Suction FilterMaintenance Every 1500 Service Hours ReplacementOperating Instructions Maintenance Every 1500 Service HoursC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Filling quantityC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Maintenance Every 1500 Service HoursChanging the Hydraulic Oil Return Filter for Power Hydraulics Operating InstructionsChecking the Injection Nozzles Maintenance Every 3000 Service HoursWhen replacing the toothed belt, also replace the idler pulley This work may only be carried out by an authorized workshopPage Laying Up Annual MaintenanceMaintenance Every 2 Years Examination of Implement Hydraulics Oil SamplesPage Engine Preservation Putting the Tractor Back in Service after a Lay-upLaying Up C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Removing Engine PreservationC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Laying UpManufacturer Recommended Fuels and LubricantsRecommended Hydraulic and Gear Oils Recommended Hydraulic OilRecommended Lubricating Recommended Fuels and LubricantsRecommended Engine Oils and Lubricants Recommended LubricantRecommended Oil Recommended Fuels and LubricantsRecommended Engine Oils and Lubricants continued LubricantsC 9700/9800 H Maintenance dataFilling Quantities C 9.72/83 HHexagon Screws and Studs Maintenance dataTighteningTorques Gearbox, Axles, WheelsMaintenance data List of Replacement PartsOrder No C 9700 ... C 9.88 HRating Bulbs 12Lights Maintenance dataC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Technical Data of EngineMaintenance data Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Maintenance dataEngine Specifications Operating InstructionsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Fuel SystemMaintenance data Operating InstructionsAlphabetical Index C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Index C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Index C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Drive Range Pre-selection Lever between SeatsC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating InstructionsIndex Operating Instructions Maintenance after the First 50 Operating HoursC 9700 ... C 9.88 H IndexC 9700 ... C 9.88 H Operating InstructionsIndex Setting the Working Speed of Programs 3 and Safety Instructions for Handling Fuels and OilsSafety Instructions for Handling Implements C 9700 ... C 9.88 HIndex C 9700 ... C 9.88 HOperating Instructions Tractors for farming and forestry also with implements